>> on december 16, 1773, columnist gathered in boston to discuss a shipment of tea that had arrived in port from britain. the arrival of the tea escalated a debate over the new tea tax. they protested the kings do measure. after the debate, columnist march to griffin's wharf and dump the tea into boston harbor. reenactors and observers re-create the scene. this event was hosted by old south meeting house and the boston tea party ships and museum. gentlemen, the 242nd anniversary celebration of the boston tea party.

>> good evening. perhaps you've heard of me. i've been a shoemaker most of my , but as an old man i am a paraded around in my colonial clothing is the last surviving participant in the boston tea party. how strange it is to think of what i have seen here in boston it, how i witnessed a nation torn of protest. i was no student of history or politics myself. of ancation consisted understanding of reading and writing. i belonged to no associations but participated in no government. our war for before independence, i became a staunch liberty boy.

continually reflecting upon the unwarrantable suffering inflicted on boston by the tyranny of great written, and my mind is excited by a desire to aid in chastising the king. >> here here. hall after this very the bloody massacre on king street in march of 1770 and again for the meetings of the body of the people in 1773 when we decided the fate. i came into this building a shoemaker. i left a true citizen. tonight, i ask you to indulge my memory and join me in a voyage

to 1773.ime, you and i will participate in one of the most important events in american history as i did once before. we will debate the issues of the tea tax and the shifts of tea floating in the harbor. stroll toill take a the harbor perhaps. well said, sir. >> thank you. i would like you to imagine what on december 16, 1773. you have all gathered at old south meeting house. it is the largest building in the town and with 5000 colonists , it's the largest political meeting ever held in boston. here for overed

two weeks to try to decide what to do about the three shiploads of tea in boston harbor. landed, we must a attacks upon it. meeting determined that the team must not the landed for we will not pay that tax! the royal authorities affirm that the tax must be paid in the team must be landed before midnight tonight. we are at a crisis. to return theorts tea to england without unloading it have failed.

tonight, we will make one last attempt to find a legal way to refuse this tea. now, tonight, we meet as the body of the people, which means even the lower ranks, journeyman and tradesman like me, may participate in the debate. even you all may lend your voice. and in in your programs, yes, you have a card. take it out. if that card is blue, you will be arguing tonight as a loyalist. >> huzzah! >> a friend of parliament! if, however, the card is yellow, you will be arguing tonight as a patriot!

a friend to his country! if you wish to speak at the meeting, you may do so by getting in line behind one of these speaking tubes, here, here, and two in the balcony. please wait to be recognized by the meeting moderator. now if you do not get a chance to speak, you may still show and lend your support for your fellow loyalists or patriot, but i ask you to do so as i and my fellow colonists once did. to show your support for the speaker, you should shout "huzzah!" well done. now let's warm it up. on my count, 1, 2, 3 -- >> huzzah!

>> now i am an old man, so these don't work quite as well. i think you could do better than that. remember, king george is listening. let's try it one more time, shall we? on my mark, 1, 2, 3 - >> huzzah! >> ah, much better. you can also show your disapproval and disdain for the speaker by shouting "why!" try that. 1, 2, 3 - >> why! >> well done. just between you and me, i hear that the sons of liberty are in the hall tonight, and they may have a secret plan that they will put into action if it is needed. [laughs]

>> you are asked to follow the instructions of your meeting moderator. he will alert you when the meeting is adjourned, and when our procession may begin. so, let us go back in time. there i am. [laughs] >> yes, a younger man. oh, my. one marked by the qualities of economy, temperance, integrity, and industry. >> yes, a younger man. and i see that my meeting moderator has arrived. so let us join the meeting. i turn over the pulpit to mr. samuel savage. thank you. >> good evening, sir. mr. hancock, we thank the clerk

for his kind notes of our last session. i call the meeting to order. we have met here at the old south meeting house since -- at 29 to decide the fate of the cargo ttea. at those meetings, this body resolved firstly that the duty imposed by parliament upon the tea landed in america is a tax on the americans without their consent. >> huzzah! >> secondly, that a virtuous and steady opposition to the ministerial plan of governing america is absolutely necessary to preserve even the shadow of

liberty, and it is a duty in which every free man in america owes to his country, himself and his posterity. >> here, here! >> thirdly, the east india company sends out there to use is a violent the -- attack upon the liberties of america. and fourthly, it is the duty of every american to oppose this attempt. we have made every effort to. peaceably prevent the landing of the tea and the paying of the duty. mr. francis wrote. roche. good evening, sir. >> good evening. >> you are asked earlier to get clearance to leave boston's harbor without unloading its

cargo of tea. 10 men, including samuel adams, accompanied you as witnesses. sir, can you tell the assembly what has taken place? >> yes, mr. savage. the commissioner of customs, mr. richard harrison, he confirmed to his superior whose opinion it was that mr. harrison could not grant the dartmouth a pass until the duties have been paid upon all the articles on board. >> here, here. >> then gentlemen, with our assistance, mr. roach -- he too applied to the naval officer in charge of safe passage past the castle. he too said his hands were tied until mr. roach gave him clearance. >> the chair recognizes mr. paul revere. >> i move that mr. roach protest against the customs house and prepare a path for the governor that he on this day set sail with his vessel to london! >> no, no!

i cannot. it is impractical, impossible! it is indeed out of the question. sir, you promised to take your ship dartmouth out of the harbor within 20 days of its arrival. tomorrow is the 20th day. will you, sir, give the order for your ship to set sail this day? >> no, i cannot. >> order! >> we have order on the floor. all in favor of the motion to send mr. roach, one more time, to governor hutchinson to get a pass to take his ship out of the harbor, please say aye! >> aye! >> motion carried. mr. roach, this body requests that you carry your protest to governor hutchinson and to ask for a pass to safely take your guns to the castle. i will make one final attempt.

>> i leave for milton immediately. >> oh, no. a sham. >> i fear this may be our last hope to peacefully return the tea to england. we will await captain roach's safe return to the meeting house. the chair recognizes mr. john hancock. sir. >> we have adopted the resolutions set forth in philadelphia regarding this oppressive act. every town in the province must appoint a committee of inspection, so this tea is never landed. >> here, here! >> the chair recognizes mr. clark. sir. >> my uncle winslow and i encourage the merchants to stand firm and pursue their right to sell this tea. this tax encourages commerce.

is that worth the bloodshed the so-called sons of liberty seek to call upon us? [pandemonium] >> order! mr. clark has the floor. >> my cousin and i import good english tea in a legal manner, unlike the smuggler of beacon hill, who brings his dutch tea under cover of darkness like a thief in the night! >> order! order! gentlemen, please, let us maintain civility. the chair recognizes mr. john copley. sir. >> i am an artist, not a politician, but like so many others in this town, i have been pulled into this matter. just a month ago, my father in law, mr. richard clarke, and the other consignees were very much desirous to see peace restored

in boston. it was out of their power to send the tea back to england, but they offered to have it stored while they awaited further orders, and they would allow the tea to be inspected to assure said committees that no tea would be sneaked off and be sold. but this body refused those concessions. and so with the consensus of the consignees, as they were not involved in introducing the tea to the town, they would not at all interfere with the people in the procedure of the same. >> the consignee! >> mr. may, you're out of order. >> the consignee - >> mr. may, you will wait until i recognize you, sir. we will have an orderly house tonight. mr. may, you may now speak. >> the consignees desire to lay the blame upon the people of boston entirely. the consignees are under the direct and immediate influence of the governor as his pawns. >> let us not forget!

>> order! >> then who of the seven consignees are governor hutchinson's son? his friends and in-laws, mr. copley. it is the governor himself who has devised this devilish plan. ben. >> the consignees must be excused. >> all this talk, as though the consignees were the passive instruments of the king's well. it was not so long ago that i and mr. clark stood with one voice against the king's taxes. just last week, he proposed out -- refused outright an

invitation for myself and other sons of liberty to discuss these matters in a civil fashion. by this blunt refusal did the consignees show themselves to be as guilty as parliament itself! [pandemonium] >> order! >> mr. molineaux, you speak as if you and your ruffian compatriots are the gentleman in this debate? >> here, here! >> mr. clark and the other consignees are only trying to protect themselves and their families from the likes of you, sir! >> here, here! well said, sir. >> by refusing to show their face, even in a public meeting such as this wit -- >> mr. clark, what about you? >> who threatens my good friend mr. clarke for his wise refusal to meet with an unnamed crowd under your so-called liberty tree? >> here, here! >> was it not you, mr. molineaux, who not too long ago led a mob that ransacked the home of our governor?

i believe i should not call you sir, but by your more fitting nickname. knave.m the n >> order, order! >> shall i, sir, name of a few of the other names that have been called by me? >> gentlemen! by god, we will have order in this house! gentlemen, let us remember the issue at hand. >> dr. warren, sir. >> thank you. gentlemen, the issue here tonight is much greater than this tax. we must demand our right to representation, because these duties are an infringement of our natural and constitutional rights. we must defend our right to

representation, on us stands the fortunes of america! >> here, here! >> order. the chair recognizes mr. may again. >> what good would representation do us if we were to send 13 representatives to that unjust body, one from each colony, or two or three from each colony? we would still be outvoted. and then, we would have legitimized the right of parliament to tax us. representation in parliament is a strawman, i say. we hold our right to tax ourselves and will not surrender that right to the corrupt placement and politicians of parliament. >> here, here.

>> the chair recognizes dr. gardner. >> i am distressed that someone seeks to delude us about this wholesome and legal beverage. if there is a poison about it, it is that which flows from the lips who insight the mob. >> here, here! >> i it is a mere threepence tax worth the destruction of trade in this town? >> the chair recognizes mr. samuel adams. sir. >> governors have no right to speak and take what they please. instead of being content with the station assigned them, that of honorable servants of society, they instead become absolute masters desperate --

as a private man has a right to say what wages he will pay in his private affairs, so has the community to determine what it will give of its substance for the administration of public affairs. >> here, here. >> the chair recognizes mr. archibald wilson. you have the floor. >> mr. savage, i apprehend that the application of a modicum of decency and civility to this assembly will have no ill effect. as i suppose mr. adams would have us drink his healthy new england rum or good english tea. [laughter] >> i fear any excesses of parliament far less than the petty tyrants and despots in this town who hide behind noble titles, king hancock, and wish

to destroy all those who oppose them. i strive to serve my customers of all political persuasions. >> here, here. >> dissent is the lifeblood of the body politic, but when it interferes with my right to carry on my business, it defiles the very principles it purports to uphold. [pandemonium] >> order! are there any others who wish to speak this evening? let them come forward to the front of the aisles, to the corners of the balcony. come, come now. we have had many who wish to speak thus far. clearly, we have a few more. the chairman recognizes the young gentleman to my left on the main floor. sir? >> my name is adam colson.

i think parliament's taxes are ruining the lives of those of us who live in the colony. >> here, here! [pandemonium] >> i think it is man's right to be free and to live with a just ruler, not an unfair tyrant like king george! >> order! the chair recognizes the speaker to my right in the balcony. >> my name is jonathan. can you not see that this issue has caused nothing but trouble? brother has turned against brother, father has turned against son. i argue with my brother-in-law, john hancock, all the time, to what end? let us pay this small tax and be done with it. >> here, here! >> why! >> i recognize my speaker to the right on the floor. >> i see ships come in and out

of the harbor, and i see many of the town's merchants. if only seven men are allowed to sell tea, what happened to the other ones? >> here, here! >> the chair recognizes the speaker to my left and the balcony. >> i am a wig maker. you loyalists think that this issue is over threepence, but it is not. we are fighting over representation in parliament, a right of all english men. >> here, here. >> here, here. >> the chair recognizes the speaker to my left on the main floor. >> my name is john cochran. i sell wine, not tea. what is stopping parliament from taxing any item it chooses? we need representation! >> here, here! >> the chair recognizes my speaker to the right. >> i go for the peaceable route. parliament has removed all other taxes. why not just go for the two

pence, drink our tea and enjoy it? [pandemonium] >> the chair recognizes the speaker to my right in the balcony. >> my name is nathaniel russell. i have friends that are both patriots and loyalists, but i am caught in the middle of his tax -- this tax issue. but since the patriots have begun a campaign that includes threats and violence, i can no longer remain neutral. >> [groaning] >> careful what you say, young sir. >> the loyalists claim the sons of liberty are not dishonest for not following the law. however, the law does not equal justice. we must do what is right! >> here, here! >> the chair recognizes the speaker to my right. >> my name is james brewer. i understand that you loyalists are upset by some of the violence of the patriots. if it takes violence to make the king listen to us, then i

support the patriots in whatever method of protest they choose. >> order! chair recognizes the speaker to my right on the floor. >> under the tea tax, british east india company's tea is cheaper than smuggled dutch or french tea. i encourage my colonists to purchase british made goods. >> the chair recognizes the speaker to my left on the floor . >> we are concerned about the violence, but as a patriot, i think we must consider our fight until our voices are heard. >> the chair recognizes my speaker to the left in the balcony. >> this chaos must stop. let us return to our orderly lives. >> the chair recognizes the speaker to my right in the balcony. >> what will happen if we continue to divide parliament? it could close the harbor.

is this protest against the tea act really worth risking our freedom? >> the chair recognizes the speaker to my right on the floor. sir. >> my name is isaac williams. we need to demand our full rights as english citizens. without representation, gentlemen, parliament is committing a violent attack on the liberties of the colonists. >> here, here. >> the chair recognizes the speaker to my left on the floor. >> mr. chairman, members of the congregation, i am a merchant. these meetings have been tiresome and a waste of our time. >> here, here! >> why not leave well enough alone? >> order! the chair recognizes the speaker to my right on the balcony. >> i feel that a bunch is ahead of us if we do not resolve this issue. we must not let the riots and violence rule our streets. >> the chair recognizes the speaker to my left. >> i too am a simple merchant. these meetings have been a waste of our time.

why not leave well enough alone? >> the chair recognizes the speaker to my right on the floor. >> my name is benjamin tucker, junior. by being stubborn and refusing to send tea back to england, the tea merchants are causing even more problems in boston. >> here, here! >> the chair recognizes the speaker to my right. >> i am a baker, and i believe that we must follow the good laws passed by parliament. laws protect us and keep the colony strong. >> order! the chair recognizes my speaker to my right in the balcony. >> my name is nicholas. i am very angry that i am not being allowed to sell tea. our businesses are losing money. the king's laws are preventing us from providing for our families. >> here, here. >> the chair recognizes the speaker to my left in the document. -- the balcony. >> i, too, am a simple merchant. i pride myself on providing quality goods for fair prices.

since the tea act, i cannot sell tea, and i feel like i am punished. for what? >> for the right to speak your mind. the chair recognizes this speaker to my left on the floor. >> i am a weaver of this town. i know that too much strain can woven cloth to unravel. we must not push too hard against king and parliament, or the cloth of our community may also unravel. >> the chair recognizes the speaker to my right on the balcony. >> my name is joseph nichols. the loyalists say we should behave as englishmen and talk about this peacefully. i say we have brought this forth in parliament for 10 years now, and they still have not listened. >> well said! >> the chair recognizes my speaker to my left in the balcony. my name is samuel.

the loyalists say we should behave like english men and talk about this peacefully. we have been talking to the king and parliament from his 10 years now. they still haven't listened, and they are not going to listen. the time to talk with them is over. the time for action is now. >> you all have the opportunity to speak. the chair recognizes the speaker to my right on the floor. >> my name is peter harrington. my family has been boycotting british made goods and will continue to do so until the king and parliament start listening to the colonists! yeah! >> the chair recognizes my speaker to my left in the balcony. >> i say the king is infringing on our liberties by telling us what we can and cannot buy. we are being treated like second-class people -- like second-class citizens. until england gives us the respect we deserve, i will smuggle dutch tea into the colonies! >> be careful about your public statements, young lady! the speaker recognizes the

person to my right in the balcony. whoe are all englishmen must obey the laws of king george. violence must stop and order must be restored. >> the chair recognizes the speaker to my right on the floor. >> i fought in the french and indian war, and we did not need the help of the british soldiers to win it. why must we pay our troops we never asked for? why? >> i recognize the speaker to my left on the floor. gentlemen! this man has the floor. sir, you may speak. >> as a schoolmaster, i understand that the loyalists are upset by the violence. i think that sometimes violence is the only way to make

important changes. if it takes violence to make the king listen to us, then i support the patriots and what other methods they choose. >> reason, sir. be careful. >> i recognize the speaker to my left in the balcony. >> i am john cooley. these so-called "patriots" complain about a threepence tax, yet they pay higher prices for smuggled dutch tea, i ask you, where is their sense? >> the chair recognizes the speaker to my right on the balcony. >> my name is charles, a loyalist. the sons of liberty are causing violence and making boston a dangerous place to live. remember the boston massacre? the patriots hid stones inside snowballs and through them at the soldiers. no wonder they fired on the mob. >> the chair recognizes the speaker to my left in the balcony. please. >> i think king george has been good to us, and i worry about what will happen to the patriots if they continue to defy him. >> here, here! >> the chair recognizes the speaker to my left on the floor. >> as a doctor, i worry about the well-being of the the world

with this violence, but as a patriot, i believe we must continue with our fight until our voices are heard and the king takes us seriously. we must stand up against the king. >> here, here! >> the chair recognizes the speaker to my right on the balcony. >> my name is benjamin simpson. i say it is unfair that king and parliament say we can only buy british goods. i think i should be able to drink dutch tea if i like. >> the chair recognizes the speaker to my right on the floor. >> i consider myself a proud english subject. i did not partake in the protests, but watched silently, minding my own business. now i see that i serve the crown best by upholding her values.

this means joining the protest. >> here, here! >> the chair recognizes the speaker to my left in the balcony. >> my name is joseph. only seven merchants are allowed to sell east india company tea. i am other excluded merchants are at a disadvantage. we don't have our voices heard. >> the chair recognizes the speaker to my left. >> my name is edward. the tax may be on tea now, but what is stopping parliament from imposing a tax on wood, sugar, or cloth? they had taxes on these items before, but we resisted. we need to continue to boycott unfair laws. >> the chair recognizes the speaker to my right on the floor. >> you loyalists complain about violence and how violent we patriots are. violence may be terrible, but tyranny is worse. i say if violence is the only way to get them to stand up and take notice, then so be it.

violence is it. [gavel] >> order! the chair recognizes the speaker to my right in the balcony. >> my name is ellen. >> i'm a tavern keeper and i say we are not children who throw fits when we do not get what we want. we must settle our differences through negotiation. >> the chair recognizes the speaker to my left in the balcony. >> my name is robert davis. i am tired of being told what to do by the government that has ignored us for years and knows nothing of our lives. if i have to pay taxes, i want to see where my money is going and know that it is helping my fellow townspeople. >> here, here. >> the chair recognizes the speaker to my left on the floor. >> my name is john broderick. i ask my compatriots, what will happen to this colony if we continue to defy the king? if we anger the king, taxes will

be the least of our problems. >> here, here! >> order! order! the chair recognizes the speaker to my right on the floor. >> enough with the liberty tea nonsense! we are all english man and subject to the king's laws. >> order! the chair recognizes the speaker to my left in the balcony. >> my name is cooper. i teach my sons to respect their father's words. none of us are sons of liberty. we are the sons of our fathers and our king, who protects that. >> here, here! >> the chair recognizes the speaker to my right on the floor. sir, the floor is open for discussion. >> we patriots must continue to

protest. >> here, here! >> my name is john craig. i ask you, loyalists, who shall respond? king and parliament have left her cry fall on deaf ears, but i will not. i will act in her name. i ask you, my brothers, to join me, and together we shall fight for justice. >> the chair recognizes the speaker to my left in the balcony. >> why should we support a government whose laws are hurting our economy? we must protest until the tax is repealed. >> ladies and gentlemen, the night grows late. we have, i realize, many more who wish to speak than we have time to accommodate. the question may soon be called. i would ask the monitors to please select one more person who may speak this evening before we try to move to some

resolution on this issue. to my left? >> my name is john murray. everyone here knows that threepence is a small price for the king's protection during the french and indian war. you patriots are acting like spoiled children. >> order! order! the chair recognizes the speaker to my left in the balcony. >> why can we only buy english tea? and why were only seven merchants chosen to sell this tea? the tea tax is an insult to the people of boston. >> order! the chair recognizes the speaker to my left in the balcony. >> i pride myself in keeping warm, dry, and well fed. why should we go away from the king's protection?

>> the chair recognizes the gentleman to my right on the floor. sir. >> i am a rope maker. why do we allow the king to trample our rights as englishmen? we should read ourselves in the king's laws and create our own government! huzzah! >> reason, sir, reason. order! order! order! >> this is an open assembly, mr. wilson, treasonous or otherwise. mr. roach still has not returned. in the events that governor hutchinson refuses this provision, will this meeting abide by our former resolution? >> so moved. >> so moved? second? >> second. >> all in favor of the motion please say aye. the motion is carried.

we have a motion that the tea shall never be landed in the province, and to ensure this, every town must appoint a committee of inspection to prevent the tea from coming into this town. all those in favor? >> aye! >> opposed? >> nay. >> the chair is in doubt. all those in favor? >> aye! >> opposed? >> nay! >> the ayes have it. it is the resolution of this meeting that the tea shall not be landed. the chair recognizes mr. quincy. >> it is not the spirit in these walls that will withstand us. the exertion of the state will call forth certain events that will make a very different spirit necessary for our selfish salvation. those who suppose that shouts will and the trials of the day entertains a childish fantasy.

let us look to the end. let us weigh and consider before we moved to those motions that will bring forth the most trying and terrific struggle that this country ever saw. >> here, here. >> ah, mr. roach. >> mr. roach! >> mr. roach, weave been waiting for you, sir. you have returned from requesting a pass from governor hutchinson to return your ship to england with the tea without unloading it. can you tell us what has happened, sir? >> yes, sir. his excellency said he is willing to grant anything consistent with the laws, his duty to our king -- the vessel passage until it had been properly cleared by the customs house!

i will finish! but, if the vessel can obtain proper qualification, there should be no distinction between my vessel or any other? >> order! dr. young. >> francis roach must not suffer harm to his personal property. he has shown us today he is a good man who has done everything in his power to satisfy us. >> here, here. >> thank you, doctor. >> captain roach. under the present circumstances, will you order the dartmouth back to london with its cargo of tea? >> i apprehend that will be my ruin. >> if you will not order your vessel with its cargo back to london, will you attempt to land the tea?

>> i would have no part of the tea, but if properly called upon to do it, i will attempt to comply with the regulations of the custom commissioner with my own security. this meeting can do nothing more to save the country. >> mr. adams, you are out of order, sir. mr. hancock, you are out of order, sir. order! order! this meeting is not yet adjourned. keep to your seats. mr. adams. >> mr. moderator. i move that dr. thomas young, who desired to address the meeting. >> mr. young, you will way to be

recognized by the chair. you may be recognized by the chair, and you may speak, sir. >> thank you, sir. mr. moderator, you are most kind as opposed to others like him over there. this tea is really a slow poison that has a corrosive effect on all those who consume it. i have given it up since it became a political poison -- >> this meeting is not adjourned yet. sir, you have the floor. >> thank you, sir. tea produces nothing of value. its use is insidious and pernicious and leads to various distempers. i trust that you fellow countrymen have decided to eschew this tea, this boston distemper, and will resist your urges toward this wicked weed, and to all other needless

imported commodities. we are here in boston a free and generous people, and we have decided that to gather here today to exercise our right, which is long-standing right. whether this order will take us, i cannot rightly prognosticate, but mark my word. now that the hand is on the plow, there must be - >> order! order! mr. young, you still may proceed. >> thank you, sir. now what measures will the ministerial government in london take? >> mr. young.

>> will they resent this meeting? will they dare to resent it? who knows? what measures will they take against us? will they punish us? how? by quartering troops on us? by annulling our charter? by the laying on of more duties? by restraining our trade? who knows? the question is whether our assembly and deliberations were truly necessary and -- >> order! >> i believe they absolutely and positively are. we must be strong and resolute in case any one of you here be called to account for being at this.

>> order! >> and may god defend our right to freedom for this country! >> order! order! >> the people having manifested exemplary patience, having done everything in their power to preserve the tea without paying duty on it or preventing it to be sold. we have endeavored in every way to send it back unharmed to its owners. therefore, this meeting is resolved. >> we must go. >> may the harbor be awash tonight with tea. interested in american

history tv, visit our website at c-span.org/history. you can see our upcoming schedule or watch a recent program. artifacts, wrote to the white house rewind, lectures and history and more. c-span.org/history. this weekend on the presidency, author warren bingham discusses president george washington's three-month trip to southern states intended to unify the country and promote the constitution. here is a preview. george washington's southern tour was the third of three major trips that he took to visit the 13 states during his first term as president. it was nearly 1900 miles and took nearly three and a half months. the capital was in philadelphia and washington held his trip to the last because he knew it was the most challenging.

and one other reason is that north carolina, my home state, was a little reluctant to join the union. in north carolina, we have long been once not to commit to anything. did not want to commit to the union, didn't want to commit to the confederacy. north carolinians want to be off to themselves. we had the shadow of virginia and south carolina surrounding us. those states used to poke fun at us. we were slow to move. we were not a particular united states in north carolina. we were slow to join the union, but we signed the constitution in november 1789. washington was cleared to come on south to see all the southern states. at that time, the southern states i refer to would be virginia, the carolinas, and george georgia. >> watch the entire program on "the presidency" sunday here on

american history tv only on c-span3. >> up next, a look at the world war ii war crimes trial. peter maguire considers the legacies of the trials and describes how in the 1950's the germans questioned the validity of the sentences, which often resulted in perl. gerhard weinberg talks about the war crimes in asia and it's part of the conference at the world war ii museum in new orleans. it's about an hour and 50 minutes. >> good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 'sam the museum si director of research of history and i will serve today as master of ceremonies. following the surrender of germany and japan, the allied powers moved to the unprecedented step of